WHEN I WAS A STUDENT WITH KAROLINA RISTOVA – ASTERUD: I WAS STUDYING FANATICALLY, I HAD NO TIME TO EAT OR SLEEP

At the last exam, I myself insisted to get a 9 because of the way the professor performed the examination. Somehow it was all the same to me, I was not going to be bothered with it, and he went on in circles and circles with the examination. I told him: “Please, write 9, if you are not sure by now that I deserve a 10, I do not want 10,” says the Professor from the Faculty of Law for the rubric that Fakulteti.mk creates in cooperation with Pivara Skopje.

Committed, fanatical and perfectionist in her studying – with these words we can describe what kind of a student was Prof. Dr. Karolina Ristova – Asterud, Professor at the Faculty of Law “Iustinianus Primus” in Skopje. Professional also in the cooperation with us, she recalled her student days in Skopje, but also the days of her master’s and doctoral studies.

The Faculty of Law was a natural choice, although she also wanted to become a journalist. She studied in the former “Boris Kidric” (now “Vasil Antevski-Dren”), in the legal pathway. Even back then she thought about studying international relations and politics, but at the time there were no such studies and going to Belgrade or Zagreb was somehow distant. She also flirted with the idea of ​​journalism, and she was especially interested in political and military journalism.

– Oriana Fallaci was my inspiration, it seemed to me that her life was so much out of the ordinary, to be able to travel across the countries and to be at the center of the big events, to interview influential or interesting figures, but I soon gave up when the “geopolitics” became much clearer to me and the “timing” of my life, of course, with all those happenings that began in Yugoslavia, its tragic decay, the independence of Macedonia, a citizen of a small country… And I also realized that my mother was right when she told me that the law is a craft, a regulated profession, and that with such studies I can be anything I previously imagined. Perhaps you will not believe me, but because I have inherited a modest talent for drawing from my father, I participated in contests of art, and I even had some ideas to be a fashion designer – most likely the aesthetic Libra in me had appeared – laughs the professor.

She scarified a bit from everything else, but not from studying

Committed to her studies is a small word to describe what kind of a student was Ristova – Asterud. A high average score was not enough for her vision. Lectures, studying at the University Library, at home, and then going out into town. She was not one of those who were only interested in studying, but when she had to sacrifice something, she sacrificed a bit from everything else, but not from studying.

– Today, when I think of it, I sometimes feel sorry that I’ve been so obsessed with studying, so much effort and time, but what can you do, it’s that damn perfectionism and fanatic thoroughness. When in the second year I got politically active, in the youth of the SDSM, it all became much more difficult and more complicated. Earlier, the day before an exam, I was totally ready, I would sleep normally and then, the next day, all dressed up and fresh – on the test, which was very important because at that time the exams were oral and you could have spent the whole day waiting for your turn to come to be examined. After entering the politics I did not lose the ambition for a high average score, I also studied a lot, but I had to juggle all that with the political engagements, which were not insignificant because the youth of the political party was created at that time, then all the trips through Macedonia came, and I also became a member of the presidency of the party – explains Ristova – Asterud.

There were times when she did not sleep for nights in a row, especially the night before the exam. She says that she literally appeared on the exam in a “zombie” state, her head was buzzing and she thought that she did not know anything and that her brain was not working from over exhaustion. But she was well concentrated on the exam itself.

– Although before the exam I thought that after I finished, I would go home and crash into bed, in fact, I could not. I’ve put myself on a heavy adrenaline. My brother at that time was teasing me: “Wow, sister, you just whine that you do not know anything, and you come back home with a 10,” the professor recalls.

“Damn it, are you still going to examine her?”

Her grades were her confirmation that she finished the job the best way possible, a kind of race with herself. She has never retaken an exam. When she was not satisfied with herself, she simply missed the session. Out of the 30 exams, she considers that four of her grades were not correct (two 9s and two 8s).

– The professor of an optional subject did not reward my additional effort to get to the laws from that area while still in a draft phase, and he maybe even believed “she thinks too highly of herself.” In the second case, I myself insisted to get a 9 because of the way the professor performed the examination. It was my last exam and somehow it was all the same to me, I was not going to be bothered with it, and he went on in circles and circles with the examination, so that even the students in the audience started to comment “Damn it, are you still going to examine her?”  I told him: “Please, write 9, if you are not sure by now that I deserve a 10, I do not want 10” – Ristova – Asterud is categorical.

For the third situation with the 8, it turned out that the professor knew less about some legal provisions than her, so she believes that she probably got 8 on purpose, as a punishment, i.e. out of vanity that the professor was humiliated in front of the students. She got the fourth 8 on a written exam because “the answering time was not properly aligned with the scope and complexity of the questions so she could not write down everything.”

She had a lot of respect for her professors and still does. From all of them she tried to “buy” the knowledge as much as she can. She especially sets aside Prof. Dr. Miodrag Micajkov, for he directed and encouraged her the most to think about an academic career as early as her first year. Micajkov taught the “Theory of State and Law” and although he was considered to be a very strict professor, rigid, and even “terrible”, Ristova – Asterud accepted the offer sent to all students to prepare a seminar paper for his subject.

– The professor allowed me to choose for myself and I chose “The Ruler” from Machiavelli. Later when I enrolled in postgraduate studies, the timing was ideal, he offered me to be a demonstrator, and so, here I am now – a professor at the Faculty of Law.

She says that at that time the lectures were dominantly ex-department, they debated during the exercises. At the lectures she went to learn from the professors and eventually to ask a question, something to be clarified to her or to gain additional knowledge.

– Honestly, it did not miss sharing my views on a topic. At that stage, I thought that I should learn from those who know more than me. And most sincerely, if a professor started a discussion about something, I thought that he either did not wanted to give the lecture or he wasn’t prepared for the lecture. I always preferred systematized and clearly taught lectures from the professors – admits the professor.

I made scripts from which many colleagues learned

The fanatical studying of Asterud resulted in a loss of appetite, and she also did not wanted to waste time. Her diet consisted of coffee, honey and cigarettes.
– During my first year at the university, my brother was still a high school student and we were sitting alone at home, I know it was a holiday. He was seriously scared that I did not eat, so he cooked something and said: “Sister, please come to eat, you will die like this!” In principle, my brother and I were like a dog and a kitten, so you can imagine how much I scared him so that he decided to be so nice to me, the teacher recalls with a smile. She adds that in the NUB, among the regular team of students that studied there, she was told that they were saying: “If you want to pass, you will be following Karolina for coffee / eating / smoking breaks – when she goes, you go, when she returns to study, you are coming back too! – laughs Ristova – Asterud.

From the many anecdotes she shared with us, she said that at one point, due to travel, a professor allowed her to take the exam at the Faculty of Security.

– The local students would have killed me because “due to this abnormal nerd from the Faculty of Law, it will turn out that we don’t know anything”. For some exams, I was making scripts, and then others studied learned from them, because I nicely arranged the material for the exams, even for exams of almost a thousand pages. Few years ago, a friend of mine and a colleague told me that she still “somewhere at home” keeps some of my big and popular orange notebooks – the professor recalls.

She says that she cannot complain that she didn’t have enough fun during her studies because of her studying. Most often she sacrificed sleep. She socialized with her colleagues, she knew some of them from secondary school, but most of her friends were from other faculties.

– With some of my colleagues I have been preparing exams together, especially at the end of the studies. During that period, I began to travel more often, especially in summer, to summer schools, universities, and from that period I also have a lot of baggage of amazing fun and partying, even some mad stuff – the professor admits.

Studying on benches and on lawns – that’s what I’m missing at the UKIM campus

We asked her to share with us some of her experience from her stay in Washington DC, where she did her master studies at the Georgetown Law School. She says that it was a great life and professional experience. To this day, she still feels that Washington is her second home.

– The pace and the effort were enormous, however, I enjoyed due to the conditions, which are at the highest level at that faculty, especially in the area in ​​which I hold my master’s degree (international and comparative law as a major, and to a lesser extent, minor – jurisprudence), that is why it was, and I think it still is, ranked as one of the three best law faculties in the United States in that area. I could literally sleep in the huge library; I also loved it from an aesthetic point of view, so learning on the benches and lawns in the university yard – that’s what I’m missing at our, UKIM campus. When my parents came to visit me there, the first thing they noticed was that I was “like a fairy tale,” but that’s because the American mentality is very close to me, even before I got “Americanized” in many aspects of the studying and living there, and then also because of my personal and family life,” says Ristova – Asterud, adding that there she got convinced that her Faculty of Law in Skopje gave her a very solid preparation to compete with 300 students from around the world.

– There was no vacuum in terms, concepts, Latin maxims and expressions, rhetoric, written and oral argumentation, legal analysis, all this in conditions of a different methodological approach to learning and exams, as well as in foreign (English) language, and the language is one of key issues in the field of law. I will always be proud to emphasize this about my faculty as my academic alma mater, but also in terms of the overall education I received in our educational system at that time,” she adds.

She finished her master’s studies at Georgetown with an average of 3.75 from a maximum of 4 and with the highest honorary designation.

I urge students to be more ambitious

Asked if it was difficult for her after graduation and getting into the professor’s work, she replied that she thought that the hardest had passed, but she was wrong because the academic career implied parallel work like all others.

– Then the second shift begins, learning huge exams, then doing the master’s thesis (two consecutive postgraduate and two master’s theses), then a doctorate, then papers and conferences, so on top of all of that comes the marriage and the family, pregnancy, baby, little child, then solving housing issues, arranging the home, and on top of everything, I continue to be hyperactive in politics. Now that I’m turning back, I sometimes do not know how I survived that period, sometime from the age of 25 to 40. I think that since then I’ve become a “vampire”, I sleep a little, even when I can sleep, as a rule, I sleep from 4 to 6 hours during the weekdays, possibly over the weekend a little bit more, and even when I have a lot of work, even now there are cases, though less often, that I do not sleep properly for two to three days, especially when I am traveling. Certainly, it’s best for me now, as a professor, the way we say, my career is stabilized. If nothing else, I’m not the one who takes endless exams, now others take the exams in front of me – laughs Ristova – Asterud.

She says that when she started her career, there was a small difference between her and her students in the years, but now it is really huge and that’s sometimes strange to her.

– I do not know whether because I was surrounded by power since I was a child, and then because of my political engagement, but I never got caught up in that syndrome “when power goes to your head”, as the story goes for some of the younger ones at the academy, at least in our country. I think that I have always had a very mature, responsible and correct attitude regarding my power over the students, especially acutely aware of the significance and the consequences of assessing the knowledge, which can be both very popular and very unpopular. From the experiences from my student days, I absolutely keep in mind that the students have to have all the necessary conditions, time and chances to show their knowledge, especially when it comes to written examinations. When I formulate the questions, I am always methodically guided by “what is that which should remain in their head until the end of the career.” I urge and encourage them to be more ambitious when studying, but also to be stricter towards themselves, all the more because I have the impression that the tendency of the (younger) generations is to receive passing grades, but also high grades, with far less effort, engagement and knowledge. It contributes for them to develop some unfounded pretentiousness and imagination that they know something, when in fact, they don’t, and even more so, for the effort they need to put into their own making. More and more, there is also a lack of self-criticism about one’s own lack of knowledge, says the professor.

She openly talks about the students who have great ambitions, but all this is not supported by preparation, even awareness that a lot of work and effort is needed. That they must not rely on superficiality, bluffing and to be aware of the responsibility that follows afterwards, what kind of effects will their lack of knowledge have on the lives of many people.

– I often tell the students from all pathways at the Faculty of Law, but especially to the students of legal studies, that they shouldn’t think that only the doctors can kill with their ignorance, they can also kill and destroy lives as well as everything that is important and dear to the people in life.